Legislature(1999 - 2000)

10/15/1999 02:12 PM Senate ARR

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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 JOINT COMMITTEE ON ADMINISTRATIVE REGULATION REVIEW                                                                            
                   October 15, 1999                                                                                             
                      2:12 pm                                                                                                   
                    WORK SESSION                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Robin Taylor, Chairman                                                                                                  
Representative Jeanette James, Vice-chair                                                                                       
Representative Mary Kapsner                                                                                                     
Senator Pete Kelly                                                                                                              
Senate Georgianna Lincoln                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative John Harris                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Regulation Review - Department of Health and Social Services,                                                                   
Division of Family and Youth Services and Department of Revenue,                                                                
Child Support Enforcement Division.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Larry Persily                                                                                                               
Deputy Commissioner                                                                                                             
Department of Revenue                                                                                                           
P.O. Box 110405                                                                                                                 
Juneau, AK 99811                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on CSED procedures and regulations.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Barbara Miklos                                                                                                              
Director                                                                                                                        
Child Support Enforcement Division                                                                                              
Department of Revenue                                                                                                           
550 W. 7th Ave. Ste. 310                                                                                                        
Anchorage, AK 99501                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding child support.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dallas Cox, Manager                                                                                                         
Accounting and Paternity Section                                                                                                
Child Support Enforcement Division                                                                                              
Department of Revenue                                                                                                           
550 W. 7th, Suite 310                                                                                                           
Anchorage, AK 99501-6699                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on child support issues.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Darrell Watson                                                                                                              
Operation Manager                                                                                                               
Child Support Enforcement Division                                                                                              
Department of Revenue                                                                                                           
550 W. 7th Ave. Ste.310                                                                                                         
Anchorage, AK 99501                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on child support issues.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Rick Krueger                                                                                                                
P.O. Box 5604                                                                                                                   
Ketchikan, AK 99901                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT: Discussed his personal experience with CSED.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Dixie Tallman                                                                                                               
P.O. Box 9025                                                                                                                   
Ketchikan, AK 99901                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT: Expressed concerns about adoption procedures of                                                             
foster children.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sarah Short                                                                                                                 
Families First                                                                                                                  
Anchorage, AK 99501                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on child support reform.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Rebecca Snow, Assistant Attorney General                                                                                    
Department of Law                                                                                                               
Civil Division                                                                                                                  
Human Services Section                                                                                                          
100 Cushman St. Ste. 400                                                                                                        
Fairbanks, AK 99701                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Bethel Human Services.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Russ Webb, Deputy Commissioner                                                                                              
Department of Health and Social Services                                                                                        
P.O. Box 110601                                                                                                                 
Juneau, AK 99811-0601                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on DFYS services.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Theresa Tanoury, Administrator                                                                                              
Division of Family and Youth Services                                                                                           
Department of Health and Social Services                                                                                        
P.O. Box 110630                                                                                                                 
Juneau, AK 99811-0630                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on DFYS services.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Linda Beecher                                                                                                               
Public Defenders Agency                                                                                                         
Department of Administration                                                                                                    
550 W. 8th Ave. Ste. 304                                                                                                        
Anchorage, AK 99501                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT:  Discussed disparity among courts regarding                                                                 
court appointed representation.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-07, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN ROBIN TAYLOR called the Joint Committee on Administrative                                                              
Regulation Review meeting to order at 2:12 p.m.  Present were                                                                   
Senator Pete Kelly, Representative Mary Kapsner, Representative                                                                 
Jeanette James, and Chairman Taylor.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked that a representative of the Child                                                                 
Support Enforcement Division (CSED) give an overview first.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. BARBARA MIKLOS, Director of CSED, explained that CSED is in the                                                             
process of a major rewrite of its regulations to clarify its                                                                    
procedures, to make them public, and to ensure that its regulations                                                             
are applied clearly and consistently.  All CSED regulations have a                                                              
due process focus.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR stated the purpose of the meeting is to receive and                                                             
discuss recommendations from state agencies and the public on                                                                   
necessary legislative changes to better accomplish the agencies'                                                                
missions and to serve the public.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. MIKLOS referred to a set of questions posed to CSED by Sue                                                                  
Mossgrove, Committee Aide, and noted those questions precipitated                                                               
such recommendations.  She said the first question asked why would                                                              
a person need medical support. One question asked why CSED services                                                             
are required in cases in which a parent applies for medical                                                                     
assistance only, particularly when child support has been paid                                                                  
independent of CSED.  She explained that federal regulations                                                                    
require CSED to provide services when a person applies for medical                                                              
assistance unless the applicant requests otherwise.  Alaska                                                                     
statute, however, requires that medical assistance be provided as                                                               
part of a child support order therefore that order must be                                                                      
established before medical assistance can be given.  Ms. Miklos                                                                 
suggested a legislative change to allow CSED to give a medical                                                                  
support order without a child support order.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MIKLOS noted another question asked of CSED is how it                                                                       
communicates with the Division of Family and Youth Services (DFYS).                                                             
She explained CSED establishes relations with DFYS when a child is                                                              
in state custody or when a parent applies for public assistance.                                                                
Case information gathered by CSED and the Division of Public                                                                    
Assistance (DPA) occurs through automatic interface.  Most of the                                                               
interface between CSED and DFYS is via fax or telephone.  CSED and                                                              
DFYS are working on an automatic interface system; that system does                                                             
not require any legislative changes.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. MIKLOS deferred to Darrell Watson, Operations Manager of CSED,                                                              
to answer the third question about how CSED handles allegations of                                                              
fraud in public assistance cases.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. DARRELL WATSON, Operations Manager, CSED, informed committee                                                                
members that the same process has been used for a while.  The hire                                                              
of several new positions over the last summer prompted CSED to                                                                  
review and revise its process for handling allegations of fraud and                                                             
to create easier instructions.  CSED also updated its new computer                                                              
system, a three step process.  A case worker who receives a report                                                              
of allegations of welfare fraud obtains the name of the person                                                                  
reporting the offense, the name of the person committing the                                                                    
offense, a case number, and the nature of the fraud and notifies                                                                
the Welfare Fraud Division of DPA.  CSED also can alert them                                                                    
through the computer system.  CSED then copies the documentation                                                                
and sends it to DPA.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 218                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked whether CSED actually handles fraud                                                                       
investigations.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. WATSON said CSED does not.  Investigations are done by DPA's,                                                               
fraud section.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if CSED does any follow up on fraud                                                                       
complaints.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. WATSON replied CSED has the option to do follow up on fraud                                                                 
complaints and can put in a suspense date to check the status of                                                                
the case.  The fraud section is very good about keeping CSED                                                                    
advised on the status of a case.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked what the protocol is, and if that is                                                                      
optional.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. WATSON said that most case workers are very good about it,                                                                  
depending on their case load.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if case workers contact CSED every time there                                                             
is an allegation of fraud.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. WATSON said no, as numerous other workers would be reported to                                                              
first.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if anyone keeps track of allegations of fraud                                                             
for an annualized review at the end of the year.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. WATSON answered that they hadn't in the past, but it is a good                                                              
idea and could easily be implemented.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if such statistics would provide better                                                                   
communication between departments.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. MIKLOS said DFYS doesn't have as many issues with fraud.  The                                                               
difficulty with communication with DFYS is when a child is in                                                                   
custody.  She further explained how the paternity process is                                                                    
improved in the new regulations.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. DALLAS COX, manager of the Accounting and Paternity Section,                                                                
said the process CSED uses for making sure it has the right father                                                              
is very complex.  Normally CSED receives an application from the                                                                
custodial parent or a third party or a public assistance form which                                                             
usually provides inadequate information about the father.  CSED                                                                 
contacts the named individual to get additional information, and                                                                
can contact the Division of Motor Vehicles to get a picture of the                                                              
individual. CSED sends it to the custodial parent for a positive                                                                
identification.  CSED never enters that person's name in the system                                                             
until it has positive proof of identification.  The individual is                                                               
sent a paternity notice packet with 30 days to respond.  He can                                                                 
complete one of three actions:  an admission of paternity, a                                                                    
request for paternity testing, or a denial providing supporting                                                                 
evidence.  If the packet is ignored, CSED goes through the court                                                                
system for assistance.  He said CSED has new forms and a new                                                                    
administrative process that it will implement soon.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 347                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR explained his concern is for situations like the                                                                
Krueger one in which a mother doesn't make a claim for 17 years and                                                             
then a person finds out he is a father and owes $30,000 to $50,000                                                              
in child support.  He asked if there is anything that initiates an                                                              
earlier triggering and forces an applicant for Aid to Families with                                                             
Dependent Children to honestly declare who the father is in an                                                                  
earlier time frame.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. COX replied he didn't know what happened in the Krueger case,                                                               
but in a lot of cases CSED has tried to find out who the father is                                                              
but has not had a lot of luck.  It could be three to six months                                                                 
before CSED sends out another letter to the custodial parent for                                                                
more information; the investigation is an on-going process.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked what CSED does with a lady who applies for                                                                
aid and has no idea of who the father is.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. COX explained they send forms to the applicant asking for as                                                                
much information as possible.  It can be very time consuming.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked if some people send CSED on a wild goose                                                             
chase, and whether there are any limits to what the applicant can                                                               
say.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. COX said it happens, but CSED has to get as much information as                                                             
possible to find out as soon as possible.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. MIKLOS added that the documents applicants are required to sign                                                             
are affidavits and people could be charged with falsifying official                                                             
documents.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked if there is protection for a father to                                                             
not pay until he knows he is actually a father.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR inserted that the answer is no and there is no                                                                  
statute of limitations.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. MIKLOS said that State collections can only go back 18 years                                                                
for child support.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked how far back a father is responsible                                                                 
when he is never notified.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. MIKLOS said a Supreme Court decision says they can go back to                                                               
the time of the birth of the child.  CSED regulations allow it to                                                               
go back only to the date when the mother initially applied for                                                                  
services.  Paternity comes up more often in the Public Assistance                                                               
cases, but in those cases it is retroactive to the date the mother                                                              
applied for services.  This is the point at which they would look                                                               
for the father.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if she was referring to the date the mother                                                               
applied for child support assistance or public assistance.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 454                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
AN UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER responded if there is any outstanding child                                                             
support prior to the date of application of services, it is up to                                                               
the custodial parent to bring private action against the father.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. MIKLOS said that the State can only go back six years right                                                                 
now.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if these long-standing cases were brought to                                                              
light a few years ago when they passed the Welfare Reform Act.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. MIKLOS said that is a fact and that's what prompted their                                                                   
regulations.  CSED has chosen to be conservative because of such                                                                
situations.  CSED also tries to establish paternity for the benefit                                                             
of the child.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR related the situation of a woman in Palmer who has                                                              
a debt against her for children who are now in their 30's.  He                                                                  
thought the mission of the agency was to get money for children                                                                 
during their minority.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. MIKLOS said that was correct.  The debt does continue after the                                                             
age of majority because it acts as a deterrent for people who might                                                             
avoid paying while the children are still minors.  CSED does not                                                                
put the same effort into collections when the child is over the age                                                             
of majority.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked if CSED can file liens.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. MIKLOS said yes, they do collect, but not as aggressively.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if CSED has adequate resources to collect for                                                             
children from 0-18 years of age.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. MIKLOS said she didn't think CSED does, and that is why after                                                               
18 years, it would be more or less automatic activities.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR suggested changing the law to say collection of                                                                 
amounts owed after a child attains majority requires a civil action                                                             
that is available for either the child or the custodial parent to                                                               
pursue.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. MIKLOS repeated that CSED does not focus on cases of children                                                               
in their 30's.  She asked to know more about the case he is                                                                     
referring to.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 542                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. LARRY PERSILY, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Revenue,                                                                  
agreed that federal and state regulations need to be parallel and                                                               
that adequate resources are always a problem.  He explained that of                                                             
the 48,000 CSED cases, about 20 percent are current.  CSED has a                                                                
very small investigative staff whose job it is to locate parents                                                                
and sources of income.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES commented that whenever the State wants to                                                                 
make stronger laws, the federal government threatens to reduce its                                                              
funding.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. PERSILY agreed that the vast amount of the CSED budget (70                                                                  
percent) is federally funded and the federal government threatens                                                               
to withhold funds just as it does to other departments.  The                                                                    
question is would they carry it through.  He said some states, Ohio                                                             
for one, was fined $15 million for not complying.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. MIKLOS explained that the federal government requires states to                                                             
provide services unless someone asks them not to.  State law does                                                               
not even allow someone to opt out of the child support collection.                                                              
State law could change to allow people to opt out without danger of                                                             
losing federal funding.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-7, SIDE B                                                                                                               
Number 580                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. SARAH SHORT, representing Families First, suggested when a                                                                  
mother does not make an attempt to notify a man that he is a                                                                    
father, that CSED allow the father the same amount of time to pay                                                               
back any arrearage with a retroactive limitation of five years.                                                                 
The mother would have to prove she attempted to notify the father                                                               
and for every year he did not pay it back, the money would not go                                                               
to the mother; it would pay part of the State's expenses and                                                                    
possibly go into a trust fund for the child who could access it at                                                              
the age of 18.  She suggested a regulation that would eliminate the                                                             
interest for those missed years non-payment is through no fault of                                                              
the father.  She felt it is not in the best interest of the child                                                               
to take away the father's right to drive.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. SHORT explained in the case of Richard Schaeffer vs. State of                                                               
Alaska, the State's cost to prosecute Mr. Schaeffer was in excess                                                               
of the $29,000 owed in child support plus over $30,000 in interest.                                                             
His daughter is 28 years old and has a family of her own and wrote                                                              
a letter to CSED saying she felt she is being victimized by CSED                                                                
because they are now aggressively pursuing her father who is a                                                                  
disabled veteran.  This man volunteers to help families in need.                                                                
It doesn't help anything to take away his business and driver's                                                                 
license.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. SHORT said the State of Massachusetts is considering a child                                                                
support card similar to the ATAP account where the money is placed                                                              
in an account and the custodial parent can use the card to access                                                               
funds.  The use of the card creates a record.  Certain percentages                                                              
of the card can be used for certain purchases.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. REBECCA SNOW, Supervisor of the Division of Human Services,                                                                 
Department of Law, said she supervises the Bethel Office.  One of                                                               
the questions this committee asked is how probable cause hearings                                                               
are handled in Bethel.  She has held hearings in Bethel and has                                                                 
talked to officers.  There is a perception that the judge in Bethel                                                             
was waiving the probable cause requirement at the initial hearing                                                               
after taking emergency custody.  There is no pre-trial facility in                                                              
Bethel and the judge makes the decision about whether or not the                                                                
plaintiff qualifies for a state paid attorney.  He asks the people                                                              
if they want to have a hearing or if they want to wait and talk to                                                              
their attorney first.  Usually they want to talk to their attorney.                                                             
The probable cause decision is required by AS 47.10.142 for the                                                                 
court to extend temporary custody until the parents can talk to  an                                                             
attorney.  They don't generally come back and contest the probable                                                              
cause hearing.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER said she knows of a case in which a person                                                               
who didn't speak English very well asked for an attorney and no                                                                 
provisions were made for her.  It would have been appropriate for                                                               
her to have court appointed counsel.  After this didn't happen, she                                                             
was asked if she waived probable cause, to which she answered she                                                               
didn't understand.  When asked again, she gave the same answer.                                                                 
The magistrate then said to let the record show the mother waived                                                               
probable cause. This was on the transcript.  She suggested they                                                                 
look at this case and perhaps fire the magistrate.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 462                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. SNOW said she would be happy to look into it, but she didn't                                                                
have the power to fire magistrates.  Legal terms and statutory                                                                  
requirements are usually beyond the grasp of most people with an                                                                
average education.  She thought that the Bethel system is trying                                                                
because it has a cultural navigator who is Yupik speaking and can                                                               
explain the proceedings, the process, and individual's rights. It                                                               
also hired a new magistrate, using some federal funds, who is a                                                                 
Yupik speaking person.  That magistrate is supposed to be handling                                                              
juvenile delinquency cases, but she does hear some other cases.  Of                                                             
course, then, the court needs to have someone translate for the                                                                 
non-Yupik speaking people.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said the magistrates serve at the pleasure of the                                                               
presiding Superior Court Judge for that district who is Judge                                                                   
Beistline in Fairbanks.  Judge Beistline could fire all of those                                                                
magistrates in one day if the magistrates don't part their hair                                                                 
right.  He said you could also address problems to the Judicial                                                                 
Conduct Commission which is different than the commission that                                                                  
appoints judges.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. SNOW commented that most often probable cause is not contested                                                              
unless the attorney has a good chance of winning.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said often the parents never get to say                                                                    
anything while DFYS presents its case so the judge often takes                                                                  
DFYS's position.  She expressed concern that parents do not try to                                                              
win the case because they do not believe they can win.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 350                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said he gets frustrated with this process because                                                               
there is no opportunity for the parties to sit down in front of the                                                             
judge and freely discuss the case.  In a criminal case, probable                                                                
cause may be a major aspect or, if you're dealing with custody in                                                               
a civil matter under Title 47, probable cause may be an important                                                               
threshold.  Often probable cause is what brought the group before                                                               
the judge in the first place, similar to a person being pulled over                                                             
for a broken tail light and then being arrested for DWI.  Depending                                                             
upon the purpose for which the hearing is being held, the standards                                                             
can be different.  We often get tied up in the legal aspects of                                                                 
making certain that each parties' rights are protected to the point                                                             
that no one can freely talk about what the family needs at this                                                                 
point in time.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
VICE-CHAIR JAMES said the future of a child is in jeopardy when you                                                             
are removing a child from his/her biological parent or taking the                                                               
parent away from the child. She expressed concern that probable                                                                 
cause does not address that issue.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. LINDA BEECHER, Public Defenders Agency, said there is wide-                                                                 
spread disparity across the state as to when counsel should be                                                                  
appointed for parents.  The court system is looking into the                                                                    
problem and looking at greater uniformity.  The parents should turn                                                             
to the court for a probable cause case.  The court should get all                                                               
the information to the parents, the counsel, and DFYS regarding the                                                             
case.  It is a mistake for the court to proceed when the parents do                                                             
not have counsel.  It is not a DFYS problem as much as it is a                                                                  
court problem.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER agreed wholeheartedly.  If the state is                                                                  
going to work in the best interest of the child, the Public                                                                     
Defenders Agency needs to be properly funded, especially in the                                                                 
remote areas.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said that neither Wrangell nor Petersburg has a                                                                 
public defender.  The state has huge discrepancies demographically,                                                             
and people don't always get the service they need in the areas that                                                             
need them.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 263                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN referred to the cultural navigator position in                                                                  
Bethel, which is only one year old, and asked whether it is                                                                     
working. She also asked whether similar positions should be hired                                                               
in other parts of Alaska including urban areas, such as Fairbanks,                                                              
where cultural barriers exist.  Individuals need to understand the                                                              
laws and regulations.  She suggested when children are concerned we                                                             
need to address the issue in a different way.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. SNOW said she doesn't have a lot of experience with the                                                                     
cultural navigator.  She asked why those positions are not more                                                                 
involved with delinquency cases and child protection cases.  They                                                               
need to advise people involved in those cases, especially when                                                                  
English is not their first language.  The judge needs to educate                                                                
people on the legal terms and process so they understand what is                                                                
going on in the case proceedings.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER said the person who uses the cultural                                                                    
navigator does have a high level of familiarity with the legal                                                                  
process.  Are they going to be needing extensive training to use                                                                
the Cultural Navigator System?                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. SNOW explained that social workers do not have legal training,                                                              
but understand the legal process.  They may need Cultural Navigator                                                             
System (CNS) training.  Child Protection has a safeguard because a                                                              
hearing must be held within 48 hours because of the disruption to                                                               
the home and family life.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 157                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said he wants to focus on DFYS and why the number                                                               
of children in custody is increasing. Alaska exceeds most other                                                                 
states.  He thought this increase has overloaded DFYS's ability to                                                              
check on backgrounds and has resulted in some real tragedies.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. RUSS WEBB, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Health and Social                                                             
Services (DHSS), agreed that Alaska's rate of child abuse, neglect,                                                             
and rape is among the highest in the nation.  Reports have                                                                      
increased over the last three years, but this could be due to                                                                   
DHSS's additional capacity to respond.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. TANOURY agreed.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER said DFYS is obviously overburdened and she                                                              
wondered why it is soliciting (through ads on TV) very questionable                                                             
and anonymous reports that could encourage false or malicious                                                                   
reporting.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. TANOURY responded that those ads were from the University of                                                                
Alaska Anchorage journalism department.  DHSS does not publish ads                                                              
soliciting anonymous reports.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked if DHSS has any say in who puts ads in                                                             
the newspaper or on TV that will affect it.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. TANOURY replied that DHSS doesn't really have any control over                                                              
it.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR informed members that the committee has copies of                                                               
the ads, both of which were published by the UAA journalism                                                                     
department.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked if DFYS will screen anonymous reports                                                              
for criminal intent and asked if there are sanctions for making a                                                               
criminally false report.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. TANOURY answered that the anonymous reports make up about 8                                                                 
percent of the total reports that come in.  They are similar to                                                                 
calling 911.  She explained that some anonymous reports have saved                                                              
children's lives.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER said there are times when a vendetta is                                                                  
involved and someone is using the system.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-8,  SIDE A                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER  asked what  the sanctions are for someone                                                               
who knowingly makes  a false report.  Ms. Tanoury stated that the                                                               
only protection provided is for mandatory reporters under Title 47.                                                             
One of the problems with prosecuting false reports is trying to                                                                 
persuade mandatory reporters that it is not their job to                                                                        
investigate the situation.  This is the job of the investigating                                                                
social worker.  She did not know of  anyone who has been                                                                        
prosecuted for filing a false report.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 060                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked what number of complaints handled by DFYS are                                                             
found to be baseless concerning alleged sexual misconduct or abuse                                                              
of a child.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. TANOURY didn't know the percentages but offered to get that                                                                 
information for Chairman Taylor.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 200                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN was concerned about whether or not the calls made                                                               
to DFYS are adequately responded to.  This is an issue for all the                                                              
communities of her district.  She asked what percent of calls are                                                               
responded to and what the reason is for so many unfounded reports.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 273                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked how DFYS defines the word                                                                          
"substantiated".                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. TANOURY responded that the definition is based on a finding                                                                 
from the conclusion of an investigation.  A substantiated finding                                                               
is one where the available facts in the case show that a child                                                                  
suffered harm as a result of abuse and neglect.    It is a                                                                      
caseworker determination.  There are three outcomes for reports -                                                               
substantiated, unconfirmed (based on the facts, the worker cannot                                                               
determine whether there has been harm) and  invalid (no facts                                                                   
available).                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 306                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER wanted to know who the case goes to once a                                                               
determination has been made.  MS. TANOURY responded that a case                                                                 
cannot be closed without  a supervisors review.  The fact finding                                                               
mission goes beyond  the child to doctors, teachers, friends, etc.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 340                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. RICK KRUEGER, Ketchikan, relayed to the committee the ongoing                                                               
problems he has been having with DFYS and CSED.  Mr. Krueger is                                                                 
being required to pay AFDC for a debt concerning his daughter, her                                                              
mother and the mothers other child, who is not related to Mr.                                                                   
Krueger.   Mr. Krueger feels he does not have an obligation to pay                                                              
for the mother and the child that is not his.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 488                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER PERSILY first stated that Mr. Krueger's case                                                                
had not been handled well, and then said he will ask the Attorney                                                               
General's office to review the bankruptcy case.  He explained the                                                               
amount a noncustodial parent pays in child support is determined by                                                             
the order which is based on the noncustodial parent's income.    He                                                             
noted the welfare fraud investigation reports will go to DPA.   If                                                              
welfare fraud is determined,  the charges will be removed from the                                                              
noncustodial parents debt to the state.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 529                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. MIKLOS stated that child support payments are based on the                                                                  
ability of the noncustodial parent to pay support.  It is rare that                                                             
CSED gets the full amount of the childrens' grant in child support.                                                             
Grants will not pay for the custodial parent, just the children for                                                             
which paternity has been established.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 529                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. MIKLOS pointed out that the income for the noncustodial parent                                                              
is not based on the highest income year.  CSED collects income                                                                  
reports for all years and bases their amount on that.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR  asked Mr. Krueger for his suggestions concerning                                                               
changes in the law so this type of situation could be prevented.                                                                
MR. KRUEGER  suggested that  CSED try to find the father as soon as                                                             
his name is disclosed.  He also feels something should be done                                                                  
about arrearage.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Tape 99-8, Side B                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR suggested that there should be a one year statute                                                               
of limitation set after the determination of paternity. This would                                                              
be a motivating factor for DFYS and CSED.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRUEGER felt this was a good idea.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 551                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN felt that the finances must be in place before the                                                              
departments try to locate fathers.  She also felt a time limit                                                                  
should be set.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR suggested that there needs to be some incentive for                                                             
improving the reporting process and some practical solutions need                                                               
to be found so that the state can determine who the fathers are.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 510                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. MIKLOS stated that there is a statute for the voluntary                                                                     
acknowledgment of paternity.  CSED just distributed a video tape to                                                             
all hospitals and birthing centers encouraging people to                                                                        
voluntarily acknowledge paternity.  In one month there were 700                                                                 
illegitimate births with 500 voluntary acknowledgments of                                                                       
paternity.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 482                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. DIXIE TALLMAN, Foster Parent,  said she had a foster child for                                                              
14+ months until an adopting family was found for the child.  The                                                               
transition went well.  The biological father came forward at this                                                               
point and there was a hearing.  The child went to live with her                                                                 
father.  The child became very withdrawn and showed no emotion.                                                                 
Ms. Tallman wanted to know why a psychologist is consulted on                                                                   
transition if there is no follow through and why the mental health                                                              
of a child is not considered.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 437                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES wanted to know if  the Tallman family                                                                      
considered adopting their foster child.  Ms. Tallman explained they                                                             
felt that because of their age it would be unfair to the child.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. TALLMAN felt that DHSS  has too much power and that more common                                                             
sense needs to be used when placing a child.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 423                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. LYNN LEVENGOOD, a Fairbanks attorney, made the following                                                                    
comments and brought some recommended changes for the departments                                                               
concerning the benefit of children.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     DFYS's  non-legal staff can take emergency custody of a                                                                    
     child without providing notice to the parents, even                                                                        
     though it is required by statute, and they can file the                                                                    
     papers in court without an attorney or the AG's office                                                                     
     reviewing the papers.  This is the most abused statue on                                                                   
     the books.  This statute should be changed to read that                                                                    
     an attorney is required to review the facts and                                                                            
     circumstances of every emergency custody case and that                                                                     
     the legal requirements are satisfied.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     People are being overtly threatened by DFYS that if they                                                                   
     don't sign some type of agreement their children will be                                                                   
     taken from them.  This problem needs to be addressed.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Regarding parentage, a statute of limitations is                                                                           
     absolutely necessary, and he noted that many states have                                                                   
     a two year statute of limitations.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     The ability to retroactively modify, at the time of the                                                                    
     modification of child support enforcement orders, should                                                                   
     be limited to the actual date they file the motion and                                                                     
     not the notice of their intent to do so.  The statute                                                                      
     should be altered to preclude the collection of any child                                                                  
     support for persons who are no longer a minor.                                                                             
     Currently, the statute states that as long as there is a                                                                   
     child support order DFYS shall collect.  It does not                                                                       
     matter how old the child support order is, the department                                                                  
     shall collect.  DFYS should not be in the collection                                                                       
     business.  Another problem is that the affidavit that is                                                                   
     required for the application of DFYS and CSED services                                                                     
     does not require any evidentiary support.  Evidentiary                                                                     
     support should be required.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. LEVENGOOD suggested the statute be changed to preclude the                                                                  
collection of any child support for persons who are no longer a                                                                 
minor.  If any child support is owed after a child reaches 18 years                                                             
of age, the cause of action should be a civil action.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
VICE-CHAIR JAMES asked about the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction                                                             
Enforcement Act.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. LEVENGOOD explained that only produces cooperation when a                                                                   
parent goes to court to try to establish custody in another state.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. LEVENGOOD made one last suggestion.  Any requirement for non-                                                               
biological parents to pay child support should be removed unless                                                                
they had adopted the child.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. JODIE OLMSTEAD, a resident of Fairbanks, said she feels that                                                                
regularly scheduled meetings on this topic need to occur and that                                                               
Alaska needs to look at what other states are doing about false                                                                 
allegations of sexual abuse of a minor.  According to a DFYS social                                                             
worker, each allegation of harm requires 80 hours of investigation                                                              
which puts caseworkers two years behind.  She suggested mandatory                                                               
video recording of all allegations of child abuse, neglect, or                                                                  
sexual abuse of a minor.  Videotaping would save the state money                                                                
and six states are using it.  At this time no checks and balances                                                               
exist within the process because the citizens review panel does not                                                             
exist. Another concern is that SB 190 contains the word                                                                         
"intentionally."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-9, SIDE A                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. OLMSTEAD discussed her own experience dealing with state                                                                    
agencies in regard to a false allegation.  She believes she was                                                                 
accused of welfare fraud because she was actively pointing out                                                                  
things that should be changed within the agencies.  She requested                                                               
a fair hearing from ATAP and then received a letter in the mail                                                                 
notifying her that they planned to drop the matter because she did                                                              
not show up for the hearing.  The notification letter was mailed to                                                             
her the day before the hearing.  She felt the only thing a client                                                               
can do, if the agencies will not use video recording and the                                                                    
citizens review panel is not re-established, is to litigate to get                                                              
some action.  She emphasized that no outlet exists for parents who                                                              
are unfairly treated to use.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
VICE-CHAIR JAMES empathized with Ms. Olmstead and stated that she                                                               
has not given up on the possibility of requiring video recorded                                                                 
interviews with children.  She acknowledged that legislators                                                                    
understand her concerns and how she has been wronged.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. OLMSTEAD said she was discouraged that the 1996 feasibility                                                                 
study relied on statistics from 1992.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
VICE-CHAIR JAMES commented that any time legislation is passed that                                                             
makes an action mandatory, exceptions must be included for                                                                      
emergency situations that arise, particularly for rural areas.  She                                                             
noted that in conversations with DFYS employees, she learned they                                                               
liked the idea because videotaping is an excellent training tool.                                                               
She pointed out that once an interview is recorded, the issue of                                                                
confidentiality arises.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. OLMSTEAD suggested treating the video recording like a court                                                                
document with a transcript.  Regarding the mandate, the social                                                                  
worker could give the videotape to his/her superior for approval,                                                               
and then have the videotape returned to the social worker who could                                                             
make it accessible to the parent in question to review.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 176                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SCOTT CALDER, a Fairbanks resident representing himself, said about                                                             
six years ago he met Jodi Olmstead. He found it difficult to                                                                    
understand Ms. Olmstead's belief that he was probably trusting the                                                              
agency people he was working with too much and that similar                                                                     
problems had been occurring for over a decade.  Having had no                                                                   
experience with what he now believes are fundamentally corrupt                                                                  
state agencies, he continued to try to work with the agencies to                                                                
help his child who had been pepper-sprayed, handcuffed and taken to                                                             
the Fairbanks Youth Facility in April of 1993.  It was only after                                                               
about four years of watching his child be tortured, he is fully                                                                 
prepared to endorse Ms. Olmstead's beliefs.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. CALDER pointed out that SLA 117, enacted in 1990, created a                                                                 
citizen review panel which has never been established.  He also                                                                 
referred to an excerpt from PL 96-272 which is referenced in SLA                                                                
117.  Page 2 of the excerpt addresses case plans, case review                                                                   
systems and plan approval.  Case plan review is only occurring                                                                  
inside the agencies in Alaska that clients are complaining about.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. CALDER asserted that the State of Alaska is moving backward                                                                 
because Section 42 of HB 375, which passed in 1998, sets out that                                                               
no duty of standard of care for services to children and their                                                                  
families is created in the legislation.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. CALDER added that Representative Dyson wrote a memo to all                                                                  
Alaska legislators on how to handle phone calls regarding referrals                                                             
to DFYS.  Mr. Calder stated that the problem must be big if                                                                     
legislators must advise and coach each other on how to deal with                                                                
DFYS and parents.  He asserted that it is time to listen to the                                                                 
people who have been complaining, and that he and others have boxes                                                             
full of information that establish a paper trail explaining the                                                                 
problems that have occurred.  He pointed out that the complainants                                                              
cannot afford to hire an attorney.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
VICE-CHAIR JAMES stated that she has been involved in government                                                                
family and youth service agencies and with foster parents in                                                                    
Washington, Oregon, and Alaska, and has found the same problems in                                                              
all three states, as well as nationwide.  Her evaluation comes from                                                             
her belief that the people who are being mistreated under the                                                                   
system are in the minority, and that the public attitude toward                                                                 
this issue is that saving a few children is more important than                                                                 
"trashing" a few families.  She noted it is difficult to get                                                                    
testimony from the department, the public and legislators, who are                                                              
trying to protect the people in their districts.  The problem is                                                                
systemic and she is not sure what the solution is.  She pointed out                                                             
that the Division of Legislative Budget and Audit found DFYS to be                                                              
understaffed.  As a result, more positions have been funded in that                                                             
agency in the last few years.  She empathized with Mr. Calder's                                                                 
frustration and pledged to do what she can to improve the                                                                       
situation, however she cautioned that the Legislature is faced with                                                             
having to cut the budget further.  She added that her constituents                                                              
want the DFYS budget cut.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 318                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. CALDER commented that he thinks a path has been cleared so that                                                             
more people can be served better, but the problem needs to be                                                                   
identified correctly which requires speaking the truth out loud,                                                                
and demanding action and results.  He said people never believed it                                                             
could happen and do not know what to call it.  He noted the big                                                                 
problem is that direct harm is delivered at an exorbitant expense                                                               
to citizens of the state by state government.  He suggested                                                                     
enacting stronger statutory criminal penalties for crimes committed                                                             
against citizens by government agencies or agents.  He maintained                                                               
that anyone, other than a state employee, who committed such acts                                                               
would be considered criminal.  He concluded that the only way we                                                                
can get beyond the problems is if people are honest about what has                                                              
occurred.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 399                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
GARY MAXWELL made the following comments via teleconference.  The                                                               
two issues on today's committee calendar are very complex areas of                                                              
law and should be heard separately.  Second, he finds it                                                                        
frustrating to sit at a meeting for four hours only to find when he                                                             
is finally able to speak, most participants have left.  He thanked                                                              
Mr. Krueger for testifying about the dysfunctional operations of                                                                
CSED.  He pointed out that sexual abuse charges and reports of harm                                                             
filed during divorce cases are found to be false about 90 percent                                                               
of the time.  Those reports are filed to strengthen one's position                                                              
in custody battles.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. MAXWELL said that CSED has six years in which to establish                                                                  
paternity and to collect AFDC debt.  He alleged that CSED employees                                                             
were under a mandate by management to sit on the AFDC cases for                                                                 
about three or four years and then start to work them at which time                                                             
the arrearage amount has increased substantially.  CSED creates                                                                 
"deadbeat" dads through its own inefficiency.  He recommended that                                                              
Civil Rule 90.3 be codified in statute so that the public can have                                                              
some input into its contents.  He suggested that CSED try to be                                                                 
user friendly instead of operating with "bullet-proof" glass.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR JAMES agreed that the state should not yield to threats                                                              
of reduced federal funding for child support enforcement as much as                                                             
it does.  She also expressed concern that many people leave their                                                               
jobs as soon as their wages are about to be garnished for child                                                                 
support payments.  Those employees would not be able to survive                                                                 
with the remainder of the paycheck and no provision is made for                                                                 
that.  She said she has thought about providing a period of amnesty                                                             
in which people could come forward and state their financial                                                                    
positions and negotiate a payment plan.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN thanked participants for waiting to testify.  She                                                               
referred to the advertisement published in the Anchorage and                                                                    
Fairbanks newspapers on October 11 that contains a DFYS phone                                                                   
number for reporting child abuse and expressed concern that                                                                     
although she wants to encourage people to support child abuse, she                                                              
wondered whether DFYS can respond to the increased number of calls.                                                             
She asked how DFYS coordinated the advertisement with the                                                                       
University of Alaska and the Advertising Federation of Alaska.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
RUSS WEBB, Deputy Commissioner of the Department of Health and                                                                  
Social Services, said that to his understanding, DHSS had no                                                                    
knowledge of the ads before they were published.  He speculated                                                                 
that the authors of the ad were trying to do a good thing by                                                                    
encouraging people to report child abuse and neglect.  Regarding                                                                
the impact to DFYS, he did not know that the ad has caused a                                                                    
significant increase in reports, but he cautioned that many                                                                     
confounding factors beyond the ad could make measuring the impact                                                               
of the ads difficult.  He said DFYS could determine what reports                                                                
came in on the days immediately following the publication of the                                                                
ads.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN asked Deputy Commissioner Webb to also find out the                                                             
number of people who called but could not be referred to an intake                                                              
worker.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WEBB clarified with Senator Lincoln that she                                                                
would like to know whether DFYS encountered an increase in the                                                                  
number of reports filed during the days immediately following the                                                               
days the advertisement was published, and the number of calls that                                                              
had to be deferred until a caseworker was available.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN also asked that he provide the number of calls at                                                               
each office.  She also asked whether his permission was needed to                                                               
put the 800 phone number in the advertisement.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WEBB replied it is a matter of public record so                                                             
anyone can publish it.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN asked whether Deputy Commissioner Webb would have                                                               
sanctioned its use if he was asked.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WEBB said DHSS would not object to information                                                              
being made public about a service it wants the public to                                                                        
understand.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business to come before the committee, VICE                                                              
CHAIR JAMES adjourned the meeting at 6:03 p.m.                                                                                  

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